作者：牵牛猫

   

事情经过很简单，某雨夜，社区治保队员ZIMMERMAN在自己居住的封闭小区义务巡逻，发现一个陌生黑人少年可能吸了毒，在该小区东张西望乱窜。他上前去问，并打了911电话报警，911让他不要继续跟踪，但他还是跟踪了一段，之后跟丢了。他向自己的汽车走过去。但在他到达汽车之前，黑人攻击了他，把他头部按在水泥地上撞，打得他鼻青脸肿，后脑流血。他右手拔枪，单手贴近自己身体射击，一枪击毙了黑人。

此事不要说警察，常人就推断出ZIMMERMAN不会无故枪击黑人的。他如果存心开枪，就大概不会事前打911报警；如果他拔枪在手，黑人也肯定不敢殴打他了。所以应该是黑人觉得他没枪才去攻击他的，正当防卫是成立的。所谓ZIMMERMAN跟踪黑人，并不妨碍他行使正当防卫。先动手的一方不能行使正当防卫，但先动口就无所谓，先跟踪只要不违法就更无所谓了。警察局调查完毕，觉得此事不值得起诉，就让ZIMMERMAN十万美元取保回家。他在家平静地呆了两个月，期间黑人也没有抗议。

但是，奥巴马手下是有一批人专门发掘种族仇视话题的，觉得此事是个富矿，奇货可居。所以，黑人被立即挑动上街闹事，他们控制的自由派媒体业也以此为借口，大造舆论。奥巴马甚至公开声称：要是他有一个儿子，一定长得象Trayvon Martin （If I Had A Son, He'd Look Like Trayvon） 。

既然总统都认干儿子了，美国的自由派媒体当即高潮了。其中CBS就高潮过头了，居然篡改剪辑了ZIMMERMAN的911电话报警录音，造成 ZIMMERMAN是种族主义分子的假象，掀起铺天盖地的媒体和黑人政治团体攻击。CBS手段太拙劣了（如果有谁比CNN更拙劣，那就是CBS)，被零成本抓了现行。于是CBS被迫公开道歉并开除了至少3个记者。但Zimmerman律师不依不饶，称道歉太迟了，依然决定起诉CBS,罪名诽谤及故意心理伤害 defamation and intentional infliction of emotional distress。由于铁证如山，CBS如不和解，官司必输无疑。

当时奥巴马施加的政治压力是非常强大的。当地的警察局长被要求配合。但警察局长说这案子太弱，手中证据不足以支持逮捕，而没有可信理由（probable cause）,逮捕是非法的。于是原局长被炒掉了，新局长上任就逮捕了ZIMMERMAN。

随即佛州检察官起诉，依然找不到证据。检方一方面逼着一批黑人做伪证，另外一方面扣留了全部对ZIMMERMAN有利的证据--这都是严重违法行为。扣留的证据中包括TRAYVON MARTIN的手机里存的数千条短信及手机里的无数照片，其中涉及团伙犯罪、非法枪支买卖及毒品交易。检察院的IT主管看不下去，出庭作证检方非法扣留证据（在ZIMMERMAN案子递交到陪审团的当天，IT主管也被开除了）。

庭审中，法官迫于政治压力，完全偏袒检方。但庭审对检方依然完全是灾难性的。检方几十个证人破“腚”百出--要么可信度破产，要么完全无关痛痒。而被告证人、专家却招招见血、逻辑严密、无懈可击。检方完败，拿不出证据情况下，居然要求陪审团去发挥自己的“普通人的感觉common sense”，去判定ZIMMERMAN有罪。这就等同于说，陪审团有权力根据自己的感觉与想象定罪。

在此情况下，法官在政治压力之下，使出了非常卑劣的一招，即允许检方在二级谋杀基础上增加过失杀人罪名。二级谋杀可判终身监禁，过失杀人可判30年监禁。但在庭审基本结束的情况下，允许检方增加罪名是非常有争议的。依法，自陪审团组成并宣誓之日，就算一重危境了（Jeopardy attaches when the jury is empaneled and sworn)，如果允许随意增加罪名，即使不算DOUBLE JEOPARDY（双重危境），也有违背程序正义（DUE PROCESS）的。

检方甚至还异想天开地试图加入三级谋杀罪名（即虐待儿童致死罪）。但吸了毒的TRAYVON MARTIN 比ZIMMERMAN个子高十几公分，还壮实不少；ZIMMERMAN被打得鼻青脸肿，后脑流血，但TRAYVON MARTIN只有一处枪伤，虐待儿童罪实在太匪夷所思了。法官怕落笑柄，不敢答应检方这个要求。

不过为了掩护检方，法官把对陪审团的指令中（jury instruction )，对过失杀人写得非常绕口模煳，希冀能够把陪审团绕进去，助检方蒙混过关。所以陪审团读得一头雾水，不明白怎么回事，只好找法官、双方律师澄清。澄清之后，即判ZIMMERMAN无罪释放。

为什么过失杀人行不通呢？原因很简单，无论是二级谋杀还是过失杀人，检方都要证明ZIMMERMAN不是在正当防卫。哪怕检方证明了接近95%的可能性，只要陪审团认为存在大于5%的疑虑ZIMMERMAN是在正当防卫，就必须判他无罪。这就是BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT举证标准。所以被告律师O'MARA在结束辩论时对陪审团说，如果你们有疑虑，请让ZIMMERMAN成为这些疑虑的唯一受益者。这句话是非常有技巧的。

此案中，被告律师团队的出色工作，早已证明了ZIMMERMAN超过50%的可能性是在正当防卫,超过了被告的举证责任（preponderance of evidence)。从法律上讲，由于检方在否定正当防卫一节证据不足，就既不能证明二级谋杀，也不能证明过失杀人。法官允许检方修改罪名，徒见有意构陷，是不足以成事的。另外，佛州采用6人制陪审团，这样的陪审团必须意见一致才能定罪。只要一人咬死检方证据不足，就不足以定罪。如果陪审团迟迟不能定罪，就叫悬而未决的陪审团（HUNG JURY），一般要重审。但此案对ZIMMERMAN证据方面太有利了，不存在HUNG JURY的情况，顺利达到了意见一致。

此案成为美国政府干预司法独立的经典案件。尤其是司法部居然直接组织反ZIMMERMAN游行，成了千古笑柄。操持种族仇恨议题的奥巴马政府目前可谓一地鸡毛。

今天黑人在抗议游行，但传说中的暴乱乃至黑人豹党并未出现。原因很简单，美国各地警察以及支持ZIMMERMAN的白人早已子弹上膛、严阵以待了。只要黑人出面打砸抢烧杀，警察和所谓“合法持枪公民”们就会横扫了他们。美国黑人，和国内的维族、回族一样，都是永远欺软怕硬的。不过，黑人是敢打 ZIMMERMAN黑枪的--怯懦者永远只敢在背后下手的。

可能还会有4个后续案子:

（1）受害者家庭对ZIMMERMAN的民事诉讼（正当防卫也是适用于民事案件的，ZIMMERMAN既然已证明正当防卫，所以必赢无疑）。

（2）原警察局长告非法解雇案。

（3）原IT主管告非法解雇案。

（4）ZIMMERMAN告CBS诽谤及故意心理伤害案。

估计佛州政府在非法解雇案中，要赔个几百万美元。CBS估计会和解，但代价也不会小。.

这些天被Zimmerman新闻直播轰炸得不行，庭审直播了两周，我没看但总瞄到电视台在没完没了地直播。本周末，天热，我缩家里看了最后一集，verdict。漫长的16个小时后，六位陪审团大妈（我估计她们是比我还老的大妈，呵呵）终于给出结果，判定George Zimmerman正当防卫，NOT Guilty!

然后，立马惹爆了米媒和米黑人团体，于是几个大城市陆续有游行和抗议。


我转的这篇文章，我是比较认同作者观点的。

首先，奥8居然干预司法，这是令人咂舌的。神经病啊，奥8？

其次，抛开所有其他的不说，这是按照米司法体制走完的过程，接受结果即是对米司法体制的认可。

再次，此案真是一个教科书般的案例，此案里，种族，司法，政权/政客，媒体，轮番上场，最后推向高潮。
到目前，戏还没结束，还会有很多后续上演。.

看了一周末的直播，码点字写写我的心得，嘿嘿。

我觉得Zimmerman案是展现了米国的种族现状。
注：我这里说的种族，是指白/黑/西裔，我认为亚裔因为人口比例小和其他原因（如不团结）尚未形成影响力。

种族现状是什么呢？我观察下来认为是“分化+融合”。

种族是米国最头大的事，是米国永远的痛。有人说种族是米国的原罪，我觉得是有道理的。因为，但凡涉及种族就敏感了，就上纲上线了，就扩大化了，就诉诸法律了，就不得好死了，就容易被政客利用了。为此，在米，涉及种族的事情，普通人总是小心翼翼避之不及的。

从种族背景教育状况经济状况犯罪率来看，我认为是“分化”的。很简单的例子为，黑人居住区，是不大敢去的。在米几个被废弃的城市，已成为黑人贩毒枪杀强奸的高发地带，这些废城没有产出，只有政府不断地往里面砸前养活那些不工作的黑人兄弟。这不是歧视，这是现状。

“融合”是从同类收入阶层看，从同类受教育程度阶层看，各族裔是融合的。体现在工作/学习/生活中，同类阶层族裔间是能友好相处和谐共存的。即便是不同阶层，在大家都守法都相互尊重的情况下，各族裔间也照样是能和谐共存的。

而当有不守法不守规则的人出现时，且为不同族裔的人有冲突产生时，麻烦就来了。
每天在各大城市上演的黑人枪杀黑人的事件并不会引起人们的注意，也就是本地新闻报道一下，大家当家常便饭看过就忘。
偶尔发生的恶性案件，白人杀了白人，如Newtown Sandy Hook 26人死于枪杀，不可能引起种族问题，而是掀起对控枪的呼声（可惜没用）。
但是，当黑人被白人毙命，事情就不那么简单了。其实，Zimmerman是一半白+一半西裔。
同理，当白人被黑人毙命，事情一样很复杂。

Zimmerman的事情没有结束，他可能会因civil right被起诉。


值得称赞的是，Zimmerman判决后的抗议总体是文明守法的，我从新闻中看到抗议的人们对判决结果不满，但对司法程序/体制还是认可的，当然也有少数人质疑程序不合理。
不得不说，这一点是米国的好处，体制在那里，遵循体制，按程序办事。服或不服，都走正常程序。我觉得这也是米国有再多问题和矛盾，也能活下来并向前走的原因。


周末pp童鞋也跟着看了一部分直播，以前她曾批评过我bias（我承认我有时是有偏见 ），也曾批评过我racism（我坚决不认为我是什么racist），不过这次Zimmerman verdict，她认同我的看法，事实是什么最重要，体制/程序设立在那里，按程序办事最重要，那么由此产生的结果，是应该受到尊重和认可的。如果不认可结果，那按程序继续上诉。.

Zimmerman一案，最不可理解的就是政府干预，奥8还出来说了些话，莫名其妙么，政府怎么可以这么做？
佛州检察官以二级谋杀起诉，显然是起诉过当了，如果开始就以manslaughter来起诉，说不定还成了。
判决后，State Attorney答记者问很有意思，我觉得Angela Corey在打圆场呢。


Zimmerman一案，最忙活的是媒体。米国这嘎达，媒体一天到晚都盼着出事呢，其实不用他们盼，米国的事情就没断过。
此案很清楚看出各台的立场，屁股怎么坐，评论就怎么倾向。我没看CBS，光看CNN & Fox就看出两台的倾向了。

Zimmerman一案没完呢，判决后没多久媒体采访Zimmerman的弟弟，他说了他的忧虑，对他哥和他全家安全很担忧。另外，他将面临民事诉讼。



July 14, 2013
George Zimmerman left a Florida courtroom Saturday night a free man after being acquitted of murder in the death of Trayvon Martin, but his troubles are likely far from over.

Although jail time is no longer a threat for Zimmerman, his lawyer says he fears for his life and may have to remain in hiding. He also potentially faces civil suits, which could result in hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and cause possible financial ruin.

In criminal cases, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant is guilty, and in most jurisdictions the jury's decision has to be unanimous. But in a civil case, the standard of proof is lower: The plaintiff's burden is, in essence, "more likely than not," rather than proof beyond a reasonable doubt..

不过有没有防卫过当这一说？很想看看检方的控词和持另一观点者的辩解。

[ 本帖最后由 Tiger2005 于 2013-7-16 10:58 编辑 ].

“美国各地警察以及支持ZIMMERMAN的白人早已子弹上膛、严阵以待了。只要黑人出面打砸抢烧杀，警察和所谓“合法持枪公民”们就会横扫了他们。”
1.最羡慕的就是这个“合法持枪公民”，有枪就是好！
2.越来越不喜欢奥8了，表现实在差强人意。.

这类报道有很多，基本上去看CNN和一些public媒体，他们的报道都是偏向被害者的。

刚有一个报道，是采访被害方证人的，贴一下：

Key witness in Zimmerman case says defense attorney is ‘lucky I’m a Christian’

The young friend of slain teenager Trayvon Martin made her first public remarks since George Zimmerman was found not guilty on Saturday, vigorously defending Martin's reputation and saying race played a role in his death and Zimmerman's acquittal.

Appearing on CNN’s “Piers Morgan” program, Rachel Jeantel responded to avalanche of public attention following her testimony as Zimmerman’s trial.

“Don West is lucky I’m a Christian,” Jeantel, 19, said when asked how she was treated in the courtroom by defense attorney Don West. “The only reason I have not said anything to Don West is because my parents have taught me better.”

Asked for her response to the jury’s not guilty verdict, Jeantel was circumspect, saying, “Disappointed. Upset. Angry. Question [sic]. And mad.”

She also added that while Trayvon Martin did occasionally smoke marijuana, he never displayed aggressive behavior or expressed an interest in firearms. She said that Martin likely smoked marijuana about two times per week, and that it was a normal amount for teens in the area.

“In my area, weed for Trayvon, weed don’t make him go crazy,” she said. “It just make him hungry.”

And despite recent comments from one of the jurors in the case, Jeantel says she does believe race played a role in Zimmerman’s actions and in the jury’s decision to acquit him.

“It was racial. Let’s be honest,” she said. “If Trayvon was white and he had a hoodie on, would that have happened? It happened around 7 o’clock, that’s when people walk their dogs.”

And on the jury saying race played no role: “They’re white.”

Jeantel says she “had a feeling” that Zimmerman would be found not guilty.

She also had a strong response to those who have mocked her for her unusual speaking style during her testimony, explaining that her speaking style is due to an overbite for which she has received medical treatment.

“A lot of people have the same issue I have right now. I have an under bite,” she said.

“It’s not that I didn’t want to be there,” she added. “There was a lot of stress. I’d been dealing with a lot of stress for 16 months. I had been grieving.”

She also said she thinks Zimmerman should have taken the stand in his own defense. When asked what she now thinks of Zimmerman, she said, “Weak. Scary. Hiding from his father. If you were a real man, you would have stood on that stage and told them what happened.”.

我看新闻得知的一点背景资料：

Zimmerman居住的小区经常发生偷窃，偷盗者为黑人兄弟们，这也是他做neighborhood watch volunteer的一个原因吧。他在案发前一些日子曾经发现又有黑人兄弟盗窃，报警后，晚了，偷完了。

Zimmerman有持枪证，2009年就有的。

被害人Trayvon Martin有吸大麻的习惯，案发前，他曾吸过大麻。
被害人17岁，但是，17岁的黑人男子，块头可是不小滴啊，同学们。.

这个事件从另一角度看，如果没有持有枪支，那么Zimmerman and Martin也就是一场打斗，Zimmerman被打得头破血流，Martin兄弟毛发无损。
事实也是这样，从Martin兄弟身上并未发现打斗留下的伤，而Zimmerman脑后和脸上都有伤并流血。所以，推断出Zimmerman被打。Zimmerman 29岁，白+西裔，块头不小，居然被打得头破血流，我只能认为Martin兄弟战斗力实在是很强，这跟他刚服过大麻有关。

好吧，如果没有持枪，这是场打斗，以Zimmerman完败，等待警察处理而结束。注：在打斗前，他报过警了。

但是，Zimmerman持枪了（还是合法持枪），事情完全不一样了。.

这些日子新闻炸开了锅，电视广播纸媒网媒，都是这个。

It's racial or not?

是也不是。

是。我觉得Zimmerman的律师说的很对，如果说这个案子牵扯racial，是，因为这个普通案子被扩大化到这个程度的本身就是因为racial。
如果是黑人兄弟和黑人兄弟干仗，who cares? seriously, who cares?!
如果这案中死者为Zimmerman，那同样不会有目前的声势，这案早结了，Zimmerman被打又被杀，Martin自然被起诉。

奥8都加入来干涉司法公正，这本身就说明，It's racial！政府和政客害怕被说种族歧视，赶紧滴大张旗鼓滴升级此案。

从此可见黑人兄弟在米社会中的分量~~~


不是。FBI在案发后调查过Zimmerman两次，没有发现任何racial的证据/迹象。今早听到对陪审团一名陪审员的采访，她这么说的，如果当时Zimmerman面对的是一位西裔，白人或亚裔，同等的情况下，他会选择开枪的。.

我为什么花时间码了这么多的字，一是因为最近这事在米铺天盖地的折腾，二是我看到国内官方报道非常的CCTV非常的混球日报。所以，我想作为旁观者，吭叽几声我的看法和认识。

三是，呵呵，我最近农闲.

pp_dream的帖子帮助我们更深入的了解美国社会，

推测一下，黑人martin吸食大麻了，行迹可以；zimmerman作为小区治安协保，觉得他可疑，故报警并跟踪；martin感觉不开心，两人起争执，并动手，martin占上风；zimmerman合法持枪，为了自卫，开枪，并至martin死亡。
此案中martin吸食大麻了，但争斗发生前并没有偷窃或其他侵犯他人的行为。
如果zimmerman未一枪击毕martin，中枪的martin不会再对zimmerman有人生威胁，后果会不一样，案件也不会如此轰动了。
但以后的martin会伺机报复吗，毕竟zimmerman的住处是固定的。

以后天黑了，就待家里得了，一定避免一个人步行，免得我不惹人，却成了控制不住自己的路人甲的随机的误伤或发泄对象。.

是的，Martin兄弟并没有偷东西，只是回他爸家，被Zimmerman跟上了，相当不爽，所以回以一顿爆揍，没想到的是Zimmerman带着枪，开枪了，居然毙命。

最初，警方并未有质疑Zimmerman的自卫，没有拘留他；Martin兄弟父母并未有异议。后来这事被闹出来，NAACP律师出面，州检察官起诉，奥8说他儿子那句话。

从报道中看，法理聚焦在佛州法律实施的"stand your ground" law。

While Zimmerman did not ultimately use the "stand your ground" defense in his case, Sanford police did not arrest him until almost two months after the shooting because of the Florida stand your ground rules that require police to have specific evidence to refute a self defense claim in order to arrest someone claiming self defense.

The police initially did not have evidence to disprove Zimmerman's self-defense claim, said former Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee, Jr.

It was not until the case drew national attention and a Department of Justice investigation that prosecutors found evidence to charge Zimmerman with second-degree murder. The NAACP Legal Defense Fund is urging Attorney General Eric Holder to undertake a review of the case and encouraging Trayvon Martin's family to pursue civil action against Zimmerman.

Last year, a Florida task force headed by the lieutenant government reviewed the state's "stand your ground" law, but in a final report, the task force only made minor recommendations that required no action from the legislature. No changes were made to the law this year.

"The liberal activists tried to use that tragedy (the shooting death of Trayvon Martin) as an opportunity to take our rights as Americans," said Florida House Speaker Rep. Will Weatherford, a Republican, on the attempts to change the state's stand your ground law. "We stood our ground on Stand Your Ground."

Across the country, at least 22 states have "stand your ground" laws, with varying degrees of requirements for when citizens may use deadly force to protect themselves. Before these new laws were put in place beginning in 2005, people who felt threatened outside their home were required to flee from an attacker before they were allowed to use force to defend themselves.

The new laws make clear, however, that if someone feels threatened either inside or outside their home, they do not have to run away and are legally justified in using force to protect themselves.


"If (my family and I) are walking through the mall and someone attacks us, I should not have to retreat. I should be able to defend myself in any place or forum that I need to," said Florida Rep. Carlos Trujillo, a Republican, on Sunday in an interview with CBS Miami.

Some states just allow people to defend themselves in their homes or businesses, while others extend the law to cars or any place someone "has a right to be." Florida's law falls into this second category.

The Zimmerman case drew national attention to the "stand you ground" laws, which were promoted by the National Rifle Association and the American Legislative Exchange Council through model legislation and advocacy.


In a study of "stand your ground" laws commissioned by the National Bureau of Economic Research, researchers found that in states with "stand your ground" laws, the number of homicides had significantly increased from the years before the law was enacted. They found that the provision that allows self-defense "in any place a person has a legal right to be" is the driver of the increase in homicides. The increase in homicides, they argue, negates the claim that these laws reduce crime.


另外，在米国，天黑了，还敢在外面溜达么？我是不敢的，除非带着狗在边上，虽然我们小区很安全，但保不齐有路过的神马人，我又没枪，但我有条狗，呵呵。.

事情绕发绕发，又绕回持枪问题上了。
Newtown 26 条鲜活生命也没改变什么，能对米国控枪有什么指望？.

陪审团的6位大妈中，今早采访的一位是37岁，不是大妈哈。


(CNN) -- One of the jurors who acquitted George Zimmerman said she had "no doubt" he feared for his life in the final moments of his struggle with Trayvon Martin, and that was the definitive factor in the verdict.

The woman, who was identified just as Juror B37, spoke exclusively to CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360" on Monday night. She is the first juror to speak publicly about the case.

She said she believes Zimmerman's "heart was in the right place" the night he shot Martin, but that he didn't use "good judgment" in confronting the Florida teen.

"I think George Zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place, but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods, and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went above and beyond what he really should have done," she said.

"But I think his heart was in the right place. It just went terribly wrong."


Juror B37: 'It's very emotional' for me
If anything, Zimmerman was guilty of not using "good judgment," the juror said.

"When he was in the car, and he had called 911, he shouldn't have gotten out of that car," she said.

She also said she believes Martin threw the first punch in the confrontation that followed.

"I think George got in a little bit too deep, which he shouldn't have been there. But Trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him ... and I think Trayvon got mad and attacked him," she said.

Zimmerman felt his life was in danger before shooting Martin, and it was his voice that was heard screaming for help in 911 calls, the juror said she believes.

"He had a right to defend himself," she said. "If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him, or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right."


Split vote

An initial vote was divided. Three of the jurors first voted Zimmerman was guilty, while three voted he was not guilty, she said. Juror B37 was among those who believed he was not guilty from the start.

"There was a couple of them in there that wanted to find him guilty of something and after hours and hours and hours of deliberating over the law, and reading it over and over and over again, we decided there's just no way, other place to go," she said.

Jurors were not identified by name during the trial, which sparked a broad debate about gun laws and race in America.

The juror said she did not believe Zimmerman profiled Martin, who was African-American, because of the color of his skin.

She believes he thought Martin was suspicious because of the way he acted.

"Anybody would think anybody walking down the road, stopping and turning and looking -- if that's exactly what happened -- is suspicious," she said.

"I think all of us thought race did not play a role," the juror said . "We never had that discussion."


At one point during the interview, she grew emotional and her voice cracked. She said jurors cried after putting in their vote.

"It's a tragedy this happened. But it happened," the juror said.

"And I think both were responsible for the situation they had gotten themselves into. I think both of them could have walked away. It just didn't happen."



Book plans canceled

The juror was planning to write a book about her experience with the case, literary agent Sharlene Martin said before her interview aired.

But hours later, the agent released a statement from Juror B37 saying she would no longer write one.

"Now that I am returned to my family and to society in general, I have realized that the best direction for me to go is away from writing any sort of book and return instead to my life as it was before I was called to sit on this jury," the juror said.

"I realize it was necessary for our jury to be sequestered in order to (protect) our verdict from unfair outside influence, but that isolation shielded me from the depth of pain that exists among the general public over every aspect of this case.".

美国这个社会确实很特别的。
因为这次去佛州兜了一圈，偶尔打开电视，好多都是有关这个案子的，当时就有些奇怪。
这贴中看到PP元老如此积极，也来看看学学。
有两点疑问，或许值得探讨：
第一，是不是因为Martin的黑人身份，所以被怀疑被跟踪被报案？或者说黑人身份在这种怀疑中占多少比重？
第二，因为遭到Martin的攻击，有合法持枪证的Zimmerman是否就有击杀对方的权利？

[ 本帖最后由 Tiger2005 于 2013-7-17 09:45 编辑 ].

总体来说，很佩服这样的司法体系。
某种程度上，这个案子是辛普森案的一个对立面？或者双生兄弟？
相信会有很多后续故事！.

我在苏州看CCTV的报到，感觉很多都是断章取义的，对整个事件说明不清楚，还是PP说的详细、真是，谢谢！.

刚才去学习了一下这个stand-your-ground law，对亚裔应该是利好的。
另外，在米国晚上不敢随便出门溜达，自由的代价还不小 。.

引用:

原帖由 Tiger2005 于 2013-7-17 09:23 发表
第一，是不是因为Martin的黑人身份，所以被怀疑被跟踪被报案？或者说黑人身份在这种怀疑中占多少比重？
第二，因为遭到Martin的攻击，有合法持枪证的Zimmerman是否就有击杀对方的权利？

第一，我认为有这个成分在里面，看报道说是该小区常发生偷窃，均为黑人兄弟所为，因此Zimmerman作为volunteered neighborhood watch而去跟踪Martin不能说没有下意识在这里起作用。
但Jurnor B的采访中她是这么说的：

The juror said she did not believe Zimmerman profiled Martin, who was African-American, because of the color of his skin.

She believes he thought Martin was suspicious because of the way he acted.

"Anybody would think anybody walking down the road, stopping and turning and looking -- if that's exactly what happened -- is suspicious," she said.

"I think all of us thought race did not play a role," the juror said . "We never had that discussion."


如果，一个陌生的穿着hoodie的壮男向我直径走来，我一定会避开，很可能是赶紧闪，不管他是白人还是黑人还是latino还是亚裔。这是我的本能，潜意识认为有危险。


第二，"stand your ground" law是解释，这你后面帖子也说了。


在米国，我觉得如果住乡下，晚上出门溜达也就是溜狗和散步，或者买东西那一定开车去。如果住扭腰这种大城市，在曼哈顿的夜生活很热闹，我觉得比上海要high。不论乡下和城市，都要远离不安全地带，总归安全第一。.

我觉得。
如果我是陪审团成员，我会倾向定罪过失杀人。理由如下：
1、从被害人的角度思考，因为我东张西望流连忘返就要被怀疑为贼么？我有理由表示愤慨！因为有我的部分的黑人兄弟当过贼就要怀疑我是贼么？有什么理由可以把那么多没有当场抓住的盗窃事件都归罪于黑人兄弟？我也有理由认为这就是一种 racial而进行抗击！
2、"stand your ground" 难道天然支持事件当事人的所有主观感受？我不相信 Martin的拳脚足以给 Zimmerman造成生命威胁。
3、好心并不能给所有行为以天然庇护。
或许这也是陪审团意见胶着的部分原因所在。.

话说，我真没看过CCTV的报道，以前在电视中看到庭辩也没什么在意，只是觉得奇怪，还以为米国电视没事就放公开辩论，当时我还和同伴玩笑，说老米是不错什么什么的 。
对此案件的了解基本局限于本帖所给信息。.

陪审团经历16个小时后才给出了裁决，而且按佛州法律，6位陪审团必须全票通过才行。
所以，3周的公开庭审，给大家看，更是给陪审团的。州监方在这过程中犯了错误，被defense attorney抓住；州监方在提交证据中有隐瞒，被defense attorney抓住。

而且，直接以二级谋杀起诉并不合理，如果一开始就以manslaughter起诉，结果很可能就不一样。

再者，政府在这个案子中明显在插手，这非常令人反感，米国人不吃政府那一套，政府越想干涉，事情越向另一方向走。

最后，6位陪审团都是女性且大都是妈妈，她们考虑的角度和结果会与一个6位男性陪审团的不同。
很多人在质疑陪审团的人选安排。如果陪审团是6位黑人，结果可能不一样，这跟当年辛普森案，类似。


你不相信Martin的拳脚足以给Zimmerman造成生命威胁，但当事人Zimmerman认为他当时遭到生命威胁而自卫，“stand your ground” laws是认可的行为，陪审团认为是自卫，连案发当初的警察也这么判定的。

现在很多人在提出废除这项“stand your ground” laws，如果这项法律在各州都废除，那么再出现相同案件，那个Zimmerman就该被判有罪。

如果你有空的话，可以看CNN等媒体报道，其倾向性非常明显，以站在Martin一边为主，呵呵。.

最奇怪的是奥8居然试图干预司法了，这个有点超乎想象，还有媒体居然无耻到篡改电话录音？.

总体感觉Zimmerman背后的能量好像很强大。
从另外一个角度来讲，奥巴也有权利发表他自己的观点。从结果看，也并没有造成干预司法的结果。
虽然我没有详细研究这个“stand your ground” laws，但是我觉得不可能有一条法律支持“只要当事人觉得有威胁，就可以开枪射杀对方”！
不过无论结局如何，或许这都将是一场没有结束的审判。
有争议有倾向并不是坏事，每一人都会有自己观点的倾向。
每一个结局都是不同力量角逐的结果，愿赌服输。Zimmerman的老爹本事够大！.

你这么看？

我不说什么了，各自保留各自看法和认识吧。.

我还是觉得有点可乐，Zimmerman有个李刚爹？

至于stand ur ground law, 如果说背后有势力促成这项法律的话，我认为背后是NRA..

不至于看到我说的什么力量角逐的话就彻底无语吧。.

呵呵，我就知道是因为这句话。让你觉得我这个观点是和CCTV一个模子的。
其实我说的是在一个大家认可的游戏规则下，同样是一种力量和智慧的角逐，比如说聘请的律师团的水平等等。
和国内几位李公子不是一层意思。.

很高兴你看到这个观点能够乐一下。
其实，再深入一点，为什么这么大的舆论倾向和奥巴的支持反而起了反作用？为什么州检会有乌龙（一次还是多次？）？为什么媒体会串改录音？都是值得继续探讨的细节。.

其实说他有个李刚爹，也是从这句话中演绎出来的。我想这是有可能的。
“Weak. Scary. Hiding from his father. If you were a real man, you would have stood on that stage and told them what happened.”.

你质疑的几点都非常好解释，简单说就是政府和NAACP干预得太使劲了。.

难道我不是在说各自保留各自看法和观点么？.

能麻烦给全文或指向楼层么？我贴多了自己也忘了哪一篇。.

呵呵，这句话来自7楼结尾。
其实观点不一样真的很正常的，很多时候也根本无法说服另一方。
我相信不一样的观点应该不会影响愉快的交流。

[ 本帖最后由 Tiger2005 于 2013-7-18 14:54 编辑 ].

我去查了查，Zimmerman的老爹是retired Magistrate Judge for the supreme court (sic) of Virginia。

这估计是检方证人那句话的缘由。

既然奥8发话也不能怎么地，媒体那么大量的轰炸也没能怎样，那他爹退休法官就有那么大能量么？况且此案的法官是站在检方一边的。

最后判决权在6位陪审团手里，而贿赂陪审团是更大的罪名，没人傻到要那么做。

因此，我看不出他退休爹能起多少影响。况且，米媒可不是吃素的，有点什么猫腻，早炸了锅了。

最后还是回到司法体制和法律条款上，遵行有效的法律，则通；否则，不通。
至于陪审团制，好像有质疑，但更多的是认可。
至于stand your ground laws，既然可以立法，也可以废除，看各方博弈吧。.

As the murder trial for George Zimmerman begins, his father has released an emotional and highly unusual e-book, publicly opining on all aspects of the case. The book by Robert Zimmerman Sr., called “Florida v. Zimmerman: Uncovering the Malicious Prosecution of my Son, George” was released today on Amazon for $3.99.

The most striking chapter is called “Who Are The True Racists,” an apparent effort to rebut claims that his son’s actions were racially motivated.

Previously, Zimmerman Sr. “believed generally racism was a thing of the past.” He says that, personally, he hadn’t encountered much racism, even though his wife is Hispanic. But after his son shot and killed Trayvon Martin, however, Zimmerman learned that racism is “flourishing at the insistence of some in the African American Community.” He then goes on to list various black leaders and organizations that he believes are racist:


Congressional Black Caucus. “[A] pathetic, self-serving group of racists… advancing their purely racist agenda.” He later adds that “all members of Congress should be ashamed of the Congressional Black Caucus, as should be their constituents.” And finally: “They are truly a disgrace to all Americans.”

The NAACP. “[S]imply promotes racism and hatred for their own, primarily finical, interests” and “without prejudice and racial divide, the NAACP would simply cease to exist.”

NAACP President Benjamin Jealous. “[W]hat I would expect of a racist.”

Trayvon Martin’s funeral director. A “racial activist and former head of the local NAACP.”

Benjamin Crump, Natialie Jackson and Darrly Parks, attorneys for Travyon Martin’s family. “The scheme team.”

The National Basketball Players Association.

Black Chamber of Commerce.

National Association of Black Law Enforcement Officers.

National Black United Fund.

United Negro College Fund.

While stopping short of explicitly calling President Obama a racist, Zimmerman Sr. does say that Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder have “shamelessly” sought to exploit his son’s case “to obtain great advantage in the African-American community.”

Zimmerman Sr. says that because of Holder’s decision to investigate whether Trayvon Martin’s death violated federal civil rights laws, the FBI did not have “adequate resources to investigate clearly identified potential terrorist [sic] in the Boston area.” Now, “tragically, we have suffered the consequences of Mr. Holder’s politically motivated decisions.”.

据悉，本周末各大城市会有游行。

天很热，兄弟们都悠着点哈。.

ORLANDO, Florida (Reuters) - Sequestered jurors locked away from the rest of the world during George Zimmerman's three-week murder trial in Florida fended off cabin fever with manicures, movies and mall shopping.

Under the round-the-clock watch of the Seminole County Sheriff's Office, the sequestered jury of six women who listened to long days of testimony in the highly charged case blew off steam with an occasional side trip.

The jury found Zimmerman not guilty in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in a case that captivated the U.S. public and triggered lengthy discussions about race, guns and self-defense laws.

There was the all-day excursion to the historic town of St. Augustine, where jurors gawked inside Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum. They knocked down pins at a bowling alley, perused merchandise at the Daytona Beach mall and munched popcorn watching two court-approved movies: "World War Z" and "The Lone Ranger."

"I think people have to understand that you (sequestered jurors) are under 24-hour, seven-day-a-week jail. I don't know how else to describe it," said Maryanne Morse, the Seminole County Clerk of Courts whose office provides jurors for trials.

"At some point, to not be stir crazy and get on each other's nerves, you have to take them somewhere and give them some entertainment," Morse said.

The jurors stayed in private rooms at a 3-star Marriott hotel a short drive from the courthouse in Sanford, Florida.

The cost of sequestering them for 22 days, and for the four alternate jurors who spent a portion of that time incommunicado, totaled approximately $33,000, according to a tally revealed on Wednesday by the sheriff's office.

Taxpayers footed the bill, including $350 for side trips, although jurors were responsible for personal expenses, such as manicures, pedicures and haircuts. They received their $30-a-day jury pay in cash every week, Morse said.

Jury sequestration is rare but typically comes into play in high-profile trials awash in media coverage. Zimmerman jurors were allowed visits from family and friends on weekends, only after signing an agreement to not discuss the case or tell anyone about the visit.

Their hotel rooms were stripped of televisions, radios and all electronics and they were allowed their cell phones only once a day to retrieve voicemails and make phone calls in the presence of a sheriff's deputy, Morse said..

NEW YORK/TALLAHASSEE (Reuters) - A member of the jury that found George Zimmerman not guilty in the shooting death of unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin called for changes to Florida's self-defense law, which she said gave jurors no option but to acquit the defendant.

The juror's statement adds to pleas from around the country to change the "Stand Your Ground" laws that many states adopted after Florida did so under former Governor Jeb Bush in 2005.

Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson also urged authorities to toss out "Stand Your Ground" laws on Wednesday and highlighted what many see as racial bias in the U.S. justice system by drawing attention to the case of Marissa Alexander.

Alexander, a 32-year-old black woman, got a 20-year sentence for firing a bullet against a wall to scare off her abusive husband. The judge would not allow her to use a "Stand Your Ground" defense and it took the jury just 12 minutes to find her guilty of three counts of aggravated battery.



"In one case, Mr. Zimmerman kills a young man and walks away, free to kill again," Jackson told reporters soon after meeting Alexander in a Florida prison. "Marissa shot no one, hurt no one, and she's in jail for 20 years."

In the Florida capital, Tallahassee, demonstrators occupied a part of the governor's office for the second straight day on Wednesday demanding that the state repeal "Stand Your Ground."

With her identity kept secret, the juror, designated B-37, gave an interview to CNN on Monday that stirred further debate in the case that captivated the U.S. public and triggered lengthy discussions about race, guns and vigilantism.

After a torrent of criticism, including a statement from four other jurors who said she did not speak for them, the juror issued a statement further stressing her position that Florida's self-defense law forced the jury to vote not guilty.

"My prayers are with all those who have the influence and power to modify the laws that left me with no verdict option other than 'not guilty' in order to remain within the instructions," juror B-37 said. "No other family should be forced to endure what the Martin family has endured."


According to the instructions given to the jury, Zimmerman had "no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force" if he reasonably feared for his life or great bodily harm.


LAW CHALLENGED

Among the many voices demanding change, singer Stevie Wonder said he will not perform in Florida until the state discards a "stand your ground" law.

A day after U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder questioned those laws in a speech, the Florida president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) urged Republican Governor Rick Scott on Wednesday to return to Tallahassee to meet with the scores of young demonstrators occupying his office to protest the verdict.

The protesters, hastily organized by a group called "Dream Defenders," are among those demanding Scott call a special session of the Republican-led Florida legislature to repeal "Stand Your Ground."


"The consequence of this verdict and the 'Stand Your Ground' law has made Florida an increasingly unsafe state for its citizens, especially its black and Latino youth," Adora Obi Nweze, president of the Florida State Conference of the NAACP, wrote in a letter hand-delivered to Scott's office.

An aide said the governor was out of town.

After three weeks of testimony and 16 hours of deliberation, the jury of five white women and one of mixed race acquitted Zimmerman of second-degree murder and manslaughter in the shooting death of Martin, inside a gated community in the central Florida town of Sanford on February 26, 2012.

Shortly before the shooting, Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer, called police from his car to report a suspicious person, Martin. The rapid-fire chain of events ended when Zimmerman shot Martin through the heart with his 9mm semiautomatic handgun.

The Democratic leaders of Florida's legislature, who are in the minority in both chambers, were due to hold a news conference in Fort Lauderdale on Thursday to announce plans for action in response to the Zimmerman acquittal. They tried to get the "Stand Your Ground" law changed in the past session, but couldn't manage to get a committee hearing on the issue.



Juror B-37, a mother of two who grew up in a military family and used to have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, said one holdout juror switched her vote to "not guilty" after half an hour of agonizing over the law.

"She wanted to find him guilty of something but couldn't because of the law. The way the law was written, he wasn't responsible for (negligent) things that he had done leading up to that point," she said.

[ 本帖最后由 pp_dream 于 2013-7-19 04:29 编辑 ].

No, Marissa Alexander’s Conviction Was Not a “Reverse Trayvon Martin” Case in Florida
http://mediatrackers.org/florida ... tin-case-in-florida

这是对#40楼Civil rights leader Jesse Jackson 提到的Marissa Alexander’s 案例的分析，根本就不是一回事。这些人就爱混淆视听.

这样下来，以后中国人拿签证就更加方便了，好象签证官都是白人，这样的话，黑炭们进来的机会就少一点了

我是不是在做中国梦.

奥巴马今天雄起了，说”黑人一进电梯所有人都把钱包藏好，女人屏住呼吸； 黑人一走过大家就按车锁；他自己进商场也会被人盯着是不是偷东西；黑人在美国受到非人待遇呀，35年前他就是那个被打死的马汀“。呵呵，奥巴马终于想起他发迹前的遭遇，四十多岁夫妻都是哈佛法学博士毕业十多年也就是个上中产。
_________

这样干预司法，实在不应该啊.

忍了这么久，终于可以发飙了。。 。
另外一个方面，黑人兄弟的犯罪率也确实是个问题，奥同学不知道有没有呼吁过。
旁观者看来，这个事件到这个地步，双方都是过分的。.

谢谢PP为我们打开了解美国的窗口
我家儿子8月就要到美国读本科，所以关注点转向美国社会了.

你家孩子美本啦！恭喜！！！

我也是在逐步了解米国。.

谢谢
我在旺旺关注板块的轨迹：小升初-初中-高中-留学，现在是移民板块了
英语早还给老师，要从头学起来了.

请教PP，我儿子读CS，在美国IT民工要加班吗？.

一般公司民工都是弹性工作制，忙起来加班很正常，早出晚归。有的虽然不是加班，但下班后脑子里继续想工作的事在家工作，这也常有。也有项目空隙的时候会比较闲一点。.

弹性工作制，加班没有加班费是吗.